Podcast - This Is Only a Test

Episode 252 – Tablets In the Bathroom – 4/10/2014

This week, Will, Norm, and Jeremy discuss Heartbleed, iPhone 6 rumors, Amazon’s FireTV, Letterman retiring, and the one place Norm’s iPad will never go. Enjoy!

Comments (54)

54 thoughts on “Episode 252 – Tablets In the Bathroom – 4/10/2014

  1. Calling the act of customers voicing their displeasure with the hateful actions of a CEO isn’t an “internet lynch mob”. There is a big difference between unpopular opinions and ones that are discriminatory and using the “it could’ve been the other way around”-line is absolutely false when it comes to an issue in which one side is trying to let all people be equal, while the other believes that certain people should not be recognized for who they are, and subsequently be marginalized legally and socially.

    Jeremy however is spot on with his example… there is *no* difference between racism and homophobia and we shouldn’t treat them differently just because one issue is more hotly contested and politicized than the other.

    Some opinions do not deserve respect, and should not be a private matter if you are in a position of power over people for which it could even theoretically pose an issue. If you have donated money to a campaign that aims to remove equal rights from a large part of the population, you are *not* fit to represent those people on the board of a company. Those people should not have to take your word that your personal beliefs do not impact your professional actions, and no one should feel compelled not to speak up for any fucking reason whatsoever.

    I get that some assholes are intelligent and good business people, that does not excuse them, or mean that their opinions and especially their actions, are off limits when evaluating whether or not they *should* run a company.

    When making that donation, he *must* have recognized that doing so meant taking an irrevocable stance on the issue. One that would make it impossible for him as a leader to present a neutral working environment. At the very least without unanimously expressed trust in his denouncing of such views *prior* to his appointment. Considering that significant criticism of his appointment stemmed from within Mozilla itself, he quite clearly did not present a neutral working environment, a fact which should have disqualified him from the position early in the process…

    He also knew very well that he would be criticized for his stance and that given his position any criticism would likely be public. There wasn’t anything in the criticism he recieved that he shouldn’t have seen coming when he made that donation six years ago.

  2. Do anyone else think the pixel cover is htc’s answer to Motorola’s active notifications on the moto x.

  3. Well, I was gonna post something long, but Kim already said it and much better than I would have anyway.

    It’s not an “unpopular opinion”, Will. It is an evil one.

  4. As for the Eich topic here is a rather interesting take on the point of view of equalling opposing gay marriage to racism.


    The author has apparently been a proponent of marriage equality for a long time and still thinks looking at the issue more closely is important rather than just saying “he or she is a bad person because this is where I draw the line and I want them to just go away”.

    It might be hard to show a higher level of tolerance and poise than the people on the other side of this argument normally do but as it seems that they have lost their case anyway why bash them needlessly.

  5. The author makes a fundamental error within the first couple of paragraphs with respect to this discussion. No one is claiming that all opponents of gay marriage are bigots.

    Many people who disagree with gay marriage due to religious reasons don’t have any issues with gay unions outside the church, these are called rational human beings who realize that not everyone belongs to their club. And most of them are at peace with those people’s decision to not adhere to its teachings. Many of those religious people, whether they are Christian or follow another faith, do not oppose equal rights for LGBT people. They can’t agree with their lives, they might even think those who live in same sex relationships are sinners, or face judgement, but they realize they live in a world where laws and society are not religious institutions, and they don’t actively try to stop people from being who they are.

    Supporters of Prop 8 however, do.

    Whether his reasons were based in prejudice or religious conviction, Eich put money towards a hateful piece of legislation that expressedly sought to ensure that LGBT couples would *not* have equal rights. In many cases invalidating their marriages, causing personal and financial problems that had very real impacts on people’s lives for a prolonged amount of time. Breaking up families and setting the movement for equal rights back a decade.

    Even if Eich wasn’t a bigot, he chose to support a proposition that was discriminatory against a group of people. Even if he did so purely due to religious conviction, harboring no ill feelings, the moment he worked to force his personal beliefs on others he crossed the line for when he could no longer be a trusted leader for those people. He suffered the due consequences, and when faced with the facts, he chose not to clarify why he had made that decision.

    This has fuck all to do with politics, so I don’t know why the Atlantic writer mentions “liberals” every couple of sentences, though his mentioning of writing about “civil-libertarian causes” might be a clue. He claims gay-marriage opposers are the only ones getting grief, but that is bullshit. Many of his examples are hugely controversial and their supporters get tons of flack for them, but considering three of his four examples concern acts of war (or at least are possible courtesy of extra-legal allowances under the excuse of being “threats to national security”), while the other one concerns rights for non-citizens of the country who broke the law to get here and by definition do not have the same point-of-reference as the “others” he refers to, that is a terribly structured argument to begin with.

    I don’t really give a shit what anyone believes, as long as they don’t make anyone’s lives more difficult or force their opinions on others. And when it comes to equal rights, I’d like to paraphrase Neil DeGrasse Tyson and throw in Wheaton’s Law at the end:

    -Everyone has equal rights, whether you believe they do or not. So don’t be a dick.-

    That includes being a dick to the people who are being dicks BTW, tell them they are wrong, stop them from making people’s lives difficult, but don’t take pleasure in it.

  6. KeePass is a cloud based service? The Keepass I know is http://keepass.info/ which is open-source and definitely not cloud-based (it just handles the files). Keepass2Android is a great Android client for it (arguably better then the desktop app, which runs better on Windows then Linux).

  7. I see your point. It´s just that it appears to be easy to become so convinced that “we are the good guys” that you can still end up being a dick.

    Then again I don´t live in the States and it sometimes hard to understand why everybody seems to be shouting at each other all the time. The climate is apparently much more passionate and when you bring religion into the mix then everybody has field day…

  8. I assume the Phantom has internal memory etc if it supports apps and so forth? If so the waypoint thing should be easy is implement. There’d be no need for a Bluetooth connection or even Wifi since you could just upload the path into the copter itself.

    Obviously there would be zero obstacle avoidance so you would need to be totally sure you programmed a “safe” path.

    This seems way too obvious though so I assume I’m missing something fairly critical. Maybe everything has to happen on the tablet or controlling device and you can’t do anything with the copter locally.

  9. – As some one who just installed a directional antenna on their router so they could get better wifi reception in the washroom, I fall on the pro-washroom tablet use side of the issue. Sometimes new dad’s need to get their alone time where they can & sub -90db ain’t going to cut it.

    – Heartbleed might as well be called ‘buttburt’ for people like myself who work in operations. The chance of any actual data / credentials being exposed is pretty small but due diligence means this weekend I have to revoke, resign and re-install certs on 100+ servers.

  10. Curious to know how the baking steel is different to a traditional bakestone, made with either cast or wrought iron or mild steel, which been used since the 1800s.

  11. Regarding the Heartbleed Bug, don’t change your passwords on your various accounts until you know for sure that the service has patched their version of Open SSL. Otherwise your new password may be immediately comprised. For more information regarding which versions of Open SSL have been affected, please read: http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2014/04/08/openssl-heartbleed-cve-2014-0160/

    Now regarding banks not using Open SSL, this is partially correct. For a list of services affected by the Heartbleed Bug, please read: http://mashable.com/2014/04/09/heartbleed-bug-websites-affected/

    After reading the above you will notice that most banks have not have been affected by this bug right? Now read: https://www.larrysalibra.com/2014/04/09/bitcoin-exchanges-ssl-more-secure-than-banks/

  12. “Many people who disagree with gay marriage due to religious reasons don’t have any issues with gay unions outside the church, these are called rational human beings who realize that not everyone belongs to their club. And most of them are at peace with those people’s decision to not adhere to its teachings. Many of those religious people, whether they are Christian or follow another faith, do not oppose equal rights for LGBT people.”

    This is me. However I feel that people that did support Prop 8 should be allowed to do so without losing their job. I feel that Eich’s opinion on gay marriage has so little bearing on his ability to lead Mozilla that the only rational conclusion is that the OK cupid thing influenced their decision to fire him.

    What if the popular opinion in America was that being gay was “wrong,” and a CEO came out of the closet. should he be fired?

  13. Very interested in your thoughts on the E-M1, I’ve had mine for just over three weeks now and it’ll never replace a DSLR for any professional but for the non-professional/casual photographer it is a really nice piece of kit.

    Image quality can’t compare to something like your 6D but I think it’s pretty close in performance to the Canon APS-C sensor cameras (60D/650D).

    Can’t wait till you try out the Fuji X-T1 as well and see what your thoughts on it are 😀

  14. Of course it hurts his ability to lead Mozilla. He can’t present a neutral, unbiased working environment when he has shown a willingness to remove the civil rights of some of his employees.

    And again, this isn’t about “popular opinion”, it is whether or not your actions cause real-world discrimination, his actions actively contributed to the loss of LGBT civil rights in California between 2008 and 2013. This is a point that can’t just be flipped around in a theoretical scenario and presented as a equal argument, a society that actively discriminates for any reason isn’t equal to one that does not, majority opinion or not.

    And I’m not saying anyone who voted for Prop 8 should lose their jobs, I’m pretty sure no one sensible would say that. However, if your employees feel that your actions show that you can’t be trusted to act without discrimination, and having voted with your wallet to remove their civil rights makes a pretty good case for that, then they have a right to speak up and be heard. They did. Many of his employees, and members of the board, thought his actions showed that he would not be able to be unbiased in his decisions and actions as CEO of a diverse company. This happened long before this thing became top news story around the web.

    If Eich had come out and said something to the effect of “I made a mistake. It is my belief that marriage within the church is a union between a man and a woman. That does not mean that those who don’t share my beliefs should not have equal civil rights in our society and have access to legal, civil unions that grant the same rights as those married in a religious ceremony. I made a bad decision in 2008 and contributed to something that hurt a lot of people, while also going against my belief that everyone no matter their beliefs or who they love are entitled to equal rights. I am very sorry for my hurtful actions, and for the impact they have had on my family at home and my family at Mozilla. Over the next few months, I’ll work hard to prove that I am worthy of the trust required of a CEO at a company as diverse and multilayered as Mozilla.” and he had followed through on those promises in a genuine way, then maybe he would have been able to keep his job. He did no such thing.

  15. When you guys were talking about Google now you set my Moto X off. It doesn’t even do it for me half the time but it works off a YouTube video for some reason.

  16. His ability to lead is subjective. So I’ll just say that no one is ever completely neutral and unbiased and yet there was no reference in the press to Eich ever suppressing the civil rights of his employees, accept for the donation he gave. Also, the fact that none of the complaints you reference caused him to be removed, but a high profile tantrum by a fairly large website did. This only suggests to me that it was the uproar, not the action that was the major reason for the removal.

    It is only because of popular opinion that a man / dolphin union is not recognized as a marriage. If you say “common sense”, Please know that “common sense” is also subjective and is a reason I hear regularly to validate the opposition of gay marriage.

    I don’t think anyone thinks you condone the firing of all Prop 8 supporters. 🙂

    Eich would not admit a mistake when he believes he made none, even with his feet to the fire. Regardless of the circumstances that is a strong (and generally regarded as good) character trait.

    The core of what I would like to impart is that not everyone thinks the same. Because of that I find it frightening when a reaction to something that is meant to be kept personal (like a donation) causes an internet uproar and ultimately the loss of a job, for someone who I deem very capable to do that job.

    Ok Cupid and the internet at large is too powerful, or maybe Mozilla is too weak.

  17. iPhone rumors >> fuck ton of Microsoft news

    Only on Tested

    Yeah, noticed that also. They talked a bit towards the end about it, but didn’t mention any windows phone 8.1

  18. And since Norm just started testing the HTC One M8, Will is likely to be the one to test a Lumia 635 should they get one. Let’s just say I imagine that’ll go about as well as the Surface 2 video they did.

  19. What amazes me is how many people think that they can have their own rights guaranteed by denying the rights of others. What Eich’s opinion on gay marriage is should have been irrelevant. The fact is that a stupid website used a fraudulent campaign to Alinsky Eich and groupthink jumped all over him, rushing to judgement and declaring that not only should Eich resign, but because he wrote a small check years ago he should probably be hanged. The problem with fascist tactics like this is that the climate of fear they create hits everybody. Is everybody here absolutely certain that every donation or issue they might have supported will always pass the groupthink test? Do you really want your want your job and in the end your life completely dependent on living to the consensus of others, whatever that might be? Are sure that every opinion you ever express on the internet may not be used against you at some point? Because ultimately that’s what’s at stake here. Frankly I wish that Mozilla had had the cojones to tell the roaring herd to go take a flying leap. It’s not as if a free service is anything but a drag anyway. I think in the long run, Mozilla will discover that there are far more of it’s customers that drop Firefox because of the consequences of it’s stance on free speech than it would lose to a gay community that’s behaving far more like fascists than I would like. The only thing worse than a sore loser is a sore winner.

  20. no. Every last word, no. Seriously

    And yes… Im pretty confident there, so feel free to have a look. I have never done anything to force my beliefs on anyone, ever. Pretty fucking easy achievement, really.

    For the record, as I see the mods have had to step in, Im not trying to stir the pot, Tested is usually a no-drama zone and I like it that way, but some bs deserves to be called out.

  21. Re the Eich thing, I would strongly encourage you to drop the phrase “lynch mob” from the discussion of internet reaction. Calling people on the internet complaining until a corporate CEO loses his position a “lynch mob” is about as appropriate as that venture capitalist equating Occupy Wall Street with Kristallnacht a few weeks ago that you (rightly) disapproved of. Lynching has a very specific context that really has no place in the discussion of a board of directors asking a CEO to step down.

    I too am somewhat torn about this. I support gay marriage and think that Prop 8 and all the other laws and constitutional amendments targeted at gays and gay marriage that were passed in the past decade or so are unjustifiable and discriminatory. The problem I have is that my view on that was overwhelmingly in the minority only a few years ago. Prop 8 passed with 52% of Californians voting for it. During the 2008 election, it was taken as a given that Obama would be nuts to say he supported marriage equality. It’s great that America is coming around on these issues, but it’s easy to worry about people being punished for their unpopular opinions when your own opinion was the unpopular one just 5 or 6 years ago. We as a country are going to have to deal with the fact that just a few years ago, 50-60% of the people were very very wrong about this, and I’m not sure that punishing a handful of individuals is the way to respond to that. It’d be satisfying on some level if we could have the other 51.999% of Californians who voted for Prop 8 lose their jobs too, but I don’t think it’d be especially helpful.

  22. Well also because no dolphin has been able to demonstrate the capability to understand, and consent to, marriage or a sexual relationship with a human. You might as well argue that it’s only opinion that means you can’t marry off young children – which is still done, by popular opinion, in some parts of the world. No one advocating for that should be in charge of Mozilla either.

  23. Book The dolphin thing is a bad analogy, all I was trying to say is that all of our social laws are governed by a vote of “popular opinion” and there is no such standard as

    a society that actively discriminates for any reason isn’t equal to one that does not, majority opinion or not.

    There is no way to discriminate against no one, and as such we must always be understanding that we.. as a society, as an internet calling for a mans job might be wrong.

    We never think we are wrong, but we sometimes are.

  24. Book The dolphin thing is a bad analogy, all I was trying to say is that all of our social laws are governed by a vote of “popular opinion” and there is no such standard as

    a society that actively discriminates for any reason isn’t equal to one that does not, majority opinion or not.

    There is no way to discriminate against no one, and as such we must always be understanding that we.. as a society, as an internet calling for a mans job might be wrong.

    We never think we are wrong, but we sometimes are.

    Which again is hypocritical – if we’re going to argue it’s all popular opinion and that’s ok, then you’ve just admitted there’s nothing wrong with popular opinion ousting Eich for the same reasons. After all, all he has to do is go find a CEOship with a company which doesn’t have a user-base or image which cares about such things.

  25. Book Please don’t equate an internet outcry to “popular opinion”. In the ousting of Eich only one side was represented. Your argument would be valid if the US government had drafted a bill that had Eich lose his job and we all voted on it.

  26. Wow there was so much going on with this podcast. One small thing at the end, regarding tablets and bathrooms. Having children definitely desensitizes one to poop in general. So Norm, while I understand where your horror comes from regarding digital devices on the toilet, I can assure you having children and changing diapers will change your perspective on the subject. Also at best most of the devices should be able to tolerate being cleaned with a baby wipe. Maybe the next innovation should be a touch screen that can be cleaned with alcohol. It goes without saying that money is way dirtier anyways. There was the toothbrush episode someone else mentioned earlier on mythbusters and this would be a great followup for Jamie and Adam like “What’s the best way to sanitize a phone or tablet?” I tend to use the IKlear with or without baby wipes most of the time. There is also the slight help of air-based oxidation. Awesome podcast!

  27. Just a point about the Phantom, you said it was hard to maintain vertical height at low levels due to the uneven terrain and undulating grass. This isn’t strictly true, the problem you were encountering is called “ground effect” and it’s where the craft is trying to fly in the turbulent air created by its own down-wash. Real helicopters suffer from this too, once you get enough height, the ground effect is no longer an issue. It’s much harder to fly and hover at low levels, that’s why you should commit to the take-off and landing so you are in the ground effect area for as short a time as possible.

  28. I can’t remember if they tested the cleaning of these items, but one episode did deal with bacteria on door-handles, phones, remotes etc. they used a dorm room as example IIRC.

  29. Noted, I hope they devote some more time to this subject the next podcast or write a small guide to what products the hosts use for cleaning.

  30. It’s kinda funny how a lot of us clean our houses/apartments frequently, but almost never worry about stuff like smart-phones or keyboards that we touch hundreds of times every week :p

  31. the part about working in France was painful to listen to.

    Myth about not-working-past-18hrs debunked here.

    35hrs weeks MYTH is also addressed there.

    the article on engadget (and the Guardian who shot first) was weak indeed.

    I worked in France for years, been working in the US for a couple years, and all cases I witnessed, similar profile employees work exactly the same amount. Exactly.

    on the “siesta”, either you meant 2nd degree and I missed it, or I’m sad you believe it even exists.

    Corporate France has many flaws, and I mean MANY :), just not those.

  32. Over 10% unemployment and a terrible economy, France sure knows how stimulate their economy. I can’t beleive Will was thick enough to think that was a good idea.

    Also Norm’s cousin sounds like a cool dude. Go spartans!

  33. iPhone rumors >> fuck ton of Microsoft news

    Only on Tested

    Yeah, noticed that also. They talked a bit towards the end about it, but didn’t mention any windows phone 8.1

    Throughout the podcast I was just waiting for them to talk about BUILD. It finally came and they talked about it for about 3 minutes. Will said he forgot to put it on the list, so I hope they talk about it next podcast at length, hopefully with Gary there. He seems to be the only one that ever has anything good to say about Windows Phone.

  34. I got a Sony NSZ-GS8 with Google TV just before the end of last year and have been using it regularly as my SlingBox receiver. I also use it for Netflix. But that is about it. If it had Hulu+ and CinemaNow, it would be the only device I would ever use connected to my TV. The thing that makes it better than most other SlingBox players is the speed of the processor comparable in my tests to only the desktop player.

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