I love Tested, and have been using the site since its inception; but I'm really growing wary of hearing all the Apple praise from the guys.
Sure, Apple has done some legitimately great stuff for the industry, but the direction they're moving in right now is really, really shitty. As someone who's owned a Mac for a little over a year now, I feel less compelled to support the company after hearing about some components being soldered & glued into the newest Macbook Pro. Also, the way they're dumbing down professional products like Final Cut and Logic (though they haven't released Logic 10 yet) are really, really worrying as someone who exclusively uses a Mac for productivity (I use my PC more than the MBP anyways).
It sucks that the podcasts & a lot of articles on Tested are so Mac-centric. Would anyone else appreciate a general 'toning down' of all of it?
I think they made some great things. I think they created some new markets. And I now they make some great profit margins.
But if your pitching or trying to pitch to a bunch of techys, while you may certainly find some Mac-ism in the group. More often than not I bet these people build there own computers and run Windows or even Linux. Because a $300 netbook can often outpower a $1000 Mac-anything, it's something interested to consider about your audience.
Sure it's good gear, but is it the best gear? Has it's quality control massively slipped? Have they really done wonderful things or are they just selling social popularity in a white plastic package? The argument goes both ways and I feel like this kind of techism site might benefit from either some avoidance of said debate, just not making it a part of conversations, or just actually always trying to be fair by showing off the competitions products as well.
Unless of course you guys are looking for a new sponsor, then keep it up! ;)
I'm really bitter about Apple a lot of the time but I thought the guys did a really good job with the last podcast pertaining to putting Apple on the pedestal. I was pleasantly surprised.
a $300 netbook can often outpower a $1000 Mac-anything
not quite
I would like a little more coverage of other stuff, but that's not what they're primarily covering anymore it would seem. Science seems more the focus now
I think it's just popular to hate on Apple now that they're as big as popular (well maybe not in market saturation...) as Microsoft. It's become a status symbol. But it turns out, they're just as shitty in business practices as Microsoft was, maybe even worse now that it's obvious they don't give a shit about anything more than profit and are suing their own business partners. (samsung)
The problem (not actually a problem) with tested, is that they're a tech site. You can't run a tech site without talking about or writing about Windows and Mac....And how often do you see Microsoft presenting hardware...? And now Apple? There you have it, you can't just stop writing about two of the major players out there cause it's cool to hate both of them now.
Fair enough Morbo. I think the original intent of the thread was not to ignore it as I said (albeit over handedly), but to give it its due. Instead of just praise, some accurate assessment of pros and cons might be a good middle ground?
The only stiff comment I heard was that the built in 64gb wasn't nearly enough, but that the rest of the machine was Zeus's bowel movements of greatness.
Well, some Tested guys are more in thrall to Apple than others. They know who they are. To his credit, Will seems to have imposed a "no rumors" rule, so at least we don't have to read about/listen to endless speculation about Apple products that haven't even been released yet.
I have to agree with you on final cut, they really just made it another version of imovie with final cut pro 10 but hey with the rumour that a new mac pro refresh is soon, I don't think they'll dumb down logic pro 10. Apple is a huge company that's designed to make the most profits, with computers heading towards tablets in the future as evidenced with windows 8, i think that apple is trying to lead the pack when it comes to this transition.
Yes, for sure. I guess There is this OMG factor that just seems to be spewing forth about products lately, regardless of what they(apple) throw into a laptop, it gets praised to death. R-display is nice...but like you say, 64gb SSD with custom driver...Where's the point if you don't have enough hard-drive to store anything to watch...
I just wish someone would drop the money and make a decent case like the macs that isn't shit. :/
@Diffferent said:
Fair enough Morbo. I think the original intent of the thread was not to ignore it as I said (albeit over handedly), but to give it its due. Instead of just praise, some accurate assessment of pros and cons might be a good middle ground?
The only stiff comment I heard was that the built in 64gb wasn't nearly enough, but that the rest of the machine was Zeus's bowel movements of greatness.
Fair enough Morbo. I think the original intent of the thread was not to ignore it as I said (albeit over handedly), but to give it its due. Instead of just praise, some accurate assessment of pros and cons might be a good middle ground?
I love that a thread that started off kind of anti-apple has actually just asked for more time spent on apple. Love it.
The only stiff comment I heard was that the built in 64gb wasn't nearly enough, but that the rest of the machine was Zeus's bowel movements of greatness.
They weren't really spewing hyperbole about how bad of a deal it was, but Will did mention how it costs about 4 grand to make this laptop usable, and norm agreed. They also called it an expensive look into the future, and that, like the first generation air, this is the model to skip. Not quoting exactly, but whatever.
Specs:
2.7GHz Core i7 + 16GB RAM +768GB flash = $3,749 = the rent is too damn high.
As for the rest of the machine being hot greek-god-level shit? Yeah. Apple's hardware is pretty goddamn great. It's pricey, but that's only bad news for your wallet.
So anyone have a theory why there is such a gap between Silicon Valley press/commentators and people who comment on tech stuff on tech sites where it comes to Apple?
Like pretty much all the Silicon Valley press loves Apple stuff but in the larger tech enthusiast community there's a lot of haters. They seemed pretty even handed on this most recent podcast.
I think the guys do a good job on their coverage. It just isn't as interesting since they usually share the same opinion on all things Apple. Shows are more fun with a bit of debate. I'm just waiting for another guest appearance form Gordon. The Gary vs. Gordon bit on Octoberkast was fantastic.
@Vermy81: Apple likes having it's name out there; makes quality products. Later: Fanboyism & Cognitive Dissonance runs rampant among consumers who purchase expensive products! Film at 11.
I love Tested, and have been using the site since its inception; but I'm really growing wary of hearing all the Apple praise from the guys....It sucks that the podcasts & a lot of articles on Tested are so Mac-centric. Would anyone else appreciate a general 'toning down' of all of it?
What I want from Tested is for them to talk about things they use, specifically things that they love to use. Apple easily falls into the "loves to use" category. I'm less concerned about this site "covering everything;" you can get that from more broad, generic sites like Engadget. It's the passion for specific things, in often incredibly detail, that gets me coming back.
@Vermy81: Apple likes having it's name out there; makes quality products. Later: Fanboyism & Cognitive Dissonance runs rampant among consumers who purchase expensive products! Film at 11.
I don't know that it's a simple case of fanboyism and the sort of tribalism about the thing you purchased though.
I really like my Mac a lot but I know plenty of people who have legitimate beefs with Apple and the Sillicon Valley press pretty much just ignores them and says all the best computers you can buy are Apple made.
Also I found it telling that the guys thought it perfectly normal to spend Macbook Air money on a machine to be a couch computer. I have a Macbook and it's my computer. It feels really disconnected from my world to speak of getting a computer that expensive just for the trivial on the couch uses. At 1000 dollars and up it's either okay for everything you do or it's not.
@Vermy81: Well, "Silicon Valley Press" do tend to be professional reviewers, who get samples of every product and compare them. I kinda trust that over Joe Schmoe who bought a laptop and is frustrated it doesn't get more coverage.
And telling? Of what? That they have more disposable income to spend? The air is perfect for couch computing. Your disconnect is that you just have your macbook, and that's your primary/only device. When they call it a couch computer, they're considering it in terms of secondary device. A peripheral and luxury product, much like a tablet. So at 1000 dollars and up, it's not all or nothing. It's either within your budget or it's not.
You may not be the audience for that segment, but that doesn't mean there's some kind of brand bias.
@Vermy81: Well, "Silicon Valley Press" do tend to be professional reviewers, who get samples of every product and compare them. I kinda trust that over Joe Schmoe who bought a laptop and is frustrated it doesn't get more coverage.
Sure, but I think it's ridiculous to be positioning Apple machines as the best in all categories of machines and not really discussing their drawbacks . For some people a iMac may be the best computer in the world but I think a custom built machine would be better for a lot of people. They never seem to mention the downsides of Apple stuff.
But if you look at message boards and Reddit and stuff about what tech enthusiasts are actually doing you see there's still a lot of what part should I get culture. That sort of hot rod PC builder culture has gotten completely swept under the rug whereas 10 years ago an article about the best computer you could build on a given budget was the centerpiece of tech sites in many cases.
I don't feel like it's a brand bias, so much as a point of view bias. There's not a lot of consideration of other points of view and there are plenty of legitimate cases that Macs are at best one of many contenders for what you should spend money on. But if you listened to the tech press and looked at the amount of coverage Apple gets you would think that they are the one and only great option.
Personally after testing both these new retina displays against regular ones in the same price range, I'm unimpressed.
Certainly the clarity is nice. The contrast assistance is nice.
But at 2-3 feet, I can't tell.
I do have glasses, and they do correct properly.
But I really can't tell. If you concentrate, you can sort of make out the lining. And for some films comparatively you sort of feel a nicer edge. But that's all. Is the price worth it yet? I don't believe so.
@Vermy81: Already pointed out that they discussed their drawbacks upthread. Not gonna rehash.
Message boards are not editorial. They're made of user generated content. Want that kind of content here? Start a thread! But don't compare a message board to some place like Tested, or The Verge. Also, 10 years ago in technology culture might as well be a lifetime. Tech news has broadened to tablets and phones, sensors and drones! The decade-old centerpiece has become specialty, and niche.
Point of view bias? I'm not sure I understand. As far as I can tell, your issue is that you're not getting content directly aimed at you? If you're saying you'd rather have more "best tech on X budget" focused content, then maybe directly request that? If nothing else, it's more constructive than bashing perfectly fine content, and/or claiming bias. Guys like Will and Norm and Topolsky can't meet requests they don't know about.
@Diffferent: What'd you test it against? Did you borrow a $2200 laptop, and haul it into an apple store?
Edit: There's also the fact that the screen has 2880 x 1880 resolution, so I can have my 27 inch screen at home (and then some), all on a 15 inch screen. Which is pretty awesome as a guy who does design work. It's not just about clarity, but having more on screen at once.
@Vermy81: Already pointed out that they discussed their drawbacks upthread. Not gonna rehash.
Message boards are not editorial. They're made of user generated content. Want that kind of content here? Start a thread! But don't compare a message board to some place like Tested, or The Verge. Also, 10 years ago in technology culture might as well be a lifetime. Tech news has broadened to tablets and phones, sensors and drones! The decade-old centerpiece has become specialty, and niche.
Point of view bias? I'm not sure I understand. As far as I can tell, your issue is that you're not getting content directly aimed at you? If you're saying you'd rather have more "best tech on X budget" focused content, then maybe directly request that? If nothing else, it's more constructive than bashing perfectly fine content, and/or claiming bias. Guys like Will and Norm and Topolsky can't meet requests they don't know about.
What I mean by point of view bias is like if I go to a site like The Verge or listen to the podcast and look at the stuff you would think that there aren't any good Windows machines. But then I know that if I get all super nerdy and pick out every single component that there are advantages when compared with say an iMac.
Then I know that there are a lot of use cases where there are advantages to different stuff. But like the tech press would make you think the only computer that anyone should have are Macs. It's not anti-Apple thing, but other people make cool tech too that doesn't get any kind of attention.
I know that if I get all super nerdy and pick out every single component that there are advantages when compared with say an iMac.
Yes, if you pick out parts, you can make a great machine. But that's not a pre-assembled product, so it's not what they're reviewing. You're comparing apples and oranges again. The best combination of parts is for something like the reddit subforums. Tested, Engadget and The Verge will compare macbooks to other similar devices, like Lenovo Thinkpads, and Ultrabooks. They'll still compare hardware, but just the hardware that comes in that package.
And apple makes some badass, design-focused hardware. So yeah, it tends to get high marks.
I'm going home now, likely won't reply again until tomorrow.
I know that if I get all super nerdy and pick out every single component that there are advantages when compared with say an iMac.
Yes, if you pick out parts, you can make a great machine. But that's not a pre-assembled product, so it's not what they're reviewing. You're comparing apples and oranges again. The best combination of parts is for something like the reddit subforums. Tested, Engadget and The Verge will compare macbooks to other similar devices, like Lenovo Thinkpads, and Ultrabooks. They'll still compare hardware, but just the hardware that comes in that package.
And apple makes some badass, design-focused hardware. So yeah, it tends to get high marks.
I'm going home now, likely won't reply again until tomorrow (if ever).
I don't have a problem with Apple getting high marks. I like my Apple stuff, it's just reached a point where they've just become so much the dominant point in their coverage that you would think they're the only option if you want a nice machine.
I went over to a friends house with this amazing multimonitor setup that he built for around the same price as a fully loaded iMac but most of the Sillicon Valley stuff just talks about how great Apple is. Just a simple example, mechanical keyboards are fucking amazing. I never even heard of this from the tech press, everyone talks about how great Apple's trackpads are and deservedly so but it was a WoW blog that tipped me off to how nice it is to have a mechanical keyboard.
If you think that tech sites are only talking about apple products, you have some hardcore blinders on.
Also, I really thought we were past all this "Tested are just apple fanboys" stuff. It's a worn out argument, and honestly I have to wonder how anyone who actually visits Tested could propose that such bias exists. They covered Apple on a week where there was an Apple press event, color me shocked.
I don't feel like they praise or talk about Apple anymore than any other tech site. Apple is seen as the Ferrari of tech, and they do make some incredibly nice stuff. That's just the way it is.
I love Tested, and have been using the site since its inception; but I'm really growing wary of hearing all the Apple praise from the guys.
Sure, Apple has done some legitimately great stuff for the industry, but the direction they're moving in right now is really, really shitty. As someone who's owned a Mac for a little over a year now, I feel less compelled to support the company after hearing about some components being soldered & glued into the newest Macbook Pro. Also, the way they're dumbing down professional products like Final Cut and Logic (though they haven't released Logic 10 yet) are really, really worrying as someone who exclusively uses a Mac for productivity (I use my PC more than the MBP anyways).
It sucks that the podcasts & a lot of articles on Tested are so Mac-centric. Would anyone else appreciate a general 'toning down' of all of it?
A bit less might be nice?
I think they made some great things. I think they created some new markets. And I now they make some great profit margins.
But if your pitching or trying to pitch to a bunch of techys, while you may certainly find some Mac-ism in the group. More often than not I bet these people build there own computers and run Windows or even Linux. Because a $300 netbook can often outpower a $1000 Mac-anything, it's something interested to consider about your audience.
Sure it's good gear, but is it the best gear? Has it's quality control massively slipped? Have they really done wonderful things or are they just selling social popularity in a white plastic package? The argument goes both ways and I feel like this kind of techism site might benefit from either some avoidance of said debate, just not making it a part of conversations, or just actually always trying to be fair by showing off the competitions products as well.
Unless of course you guys are looking for a new sponsor, then keep it up! ;)
/no offense intended, just some straight talk
I'm really bitter about Apple a lot of the time but I thought the guys did a really good job with the last podcast pertaining to putting Apple on the pedestal. I was pleasantly surprised.
@Diffferent said:
not quite
I would like a little more coverage of other stuff, but that's not what they're primarily covering anymore it would seem. Science seems more the focus now
Overstated a bit, my apologies, when the MSI Wind U230 was about, the statement would be correct at the $350 pricepoint.
Science would be fine. I look forward to more podcasts either way.
I think it's just popular to hate on Apple now that they're as big as popular (well maybe not in market saturation...) as Microsoft. It's become a status symbol. But it turns out, they're just as shitty in business practices as Microsoft was, maybe even worse now that it's obvious they don't give a shit about anything more than profit and are suing their own business partners. (samsung)
The problem (not actually a problem) with tested, is that they're a tech site. You can't run a tech site without talking about or writing about Windows and Mac....And how often do you see Microsoft presenting hardware...? And now Apple? There you have it, you can't just stop writing about two of the major players out there cause it's cool to hate both of them now.
Fair enough Morbo. I think the original intent of the thread was not to ignore it as I said (albeit over handedly), but to give it its due. Instead of just praise, some accurate assessment of pros and cons might be a good middle ground?
The only stiff comment I heard was that the built in 64gb wasn't nearly enough, but that the rest of the machine was Zeus's bowel movements of greatness.
Well, some Tested guys are more in thrall to Apple than others. They know who they are. To his credit, Will seems to have imposed a "no rumors" rule, so at least we don't have to read about/listen to endless speculation about Apple products that haven't even been released yet.
I have to agree with you on final cut, they really just made it another version of imovie with final cut pro 10 but hey with the rumour that a new mac pro refresh is soon, I don't think they'll dumb down logic pro 10. Apple is a huge company that's designed to make the most profits, with computers heading towards tablets in the future as evidenced with windows 8, i think that apple is trying to lead the pack when it comes to this transition.
Yes, for sure. I guess There is this OMG factor that just seems to be spewing forth about products lately, regardless of what they(apple) throw into a laptop, it gets praised to death. R-display is nice...but like you say, 64gb SSD with custom driver...Where's the point if you don't have enough hard-drive to store anything to watch...
I just wish someone would drop the money and make a decent case like the macs that isn't shit. :/
@Diffferent said:
@Diffferent said:
I love that a thread that started off kind of anti-apple has actually just asked for more time spent on apple. Love it.
They weren't really spewing hyperbole about how bad of a deal it was, but Will did mention how it costs about 4 grand to make this laptop usable, and norm agreed. They also called it an expensive look into the future, and that, like the first generation air, this is the model to skip. Not quoting exactly, but whatever.
Specs:
2.7GHz Core i7 + 16GB RAM +768GB flash = $3,749 = the rent is too damn high.
As for the rest of the machine being hot greek-god-level shit? Yeah. Apple's hardware is pretty goddamn great. It's pricey, but that's only bad news for your wallet.
So anyone have a theory why there is such a gap between Silicon Valley press/commentators and people who comment on tech stuff on tech sites where it comes to Apple?
Like pretty much all the Silicon Valley press loves Apple stuff but in the larger tech enthusiast community there's a lot of haters. They seemed pretty even handed on this most recent podcast.
@Vermy81: Apple likes having it's name out there; makes quality products. Later: Fanboyism & Cognitive Dissonance runs rampant among consumers who purchase expensive products! Film at 11.
@Bassman2112 said:
What I want from Tested is for them to talk about things they use, specifically things that they love to use. Apple easily falls into the "loves to use" category. I'm less concerned about this site "covering everything;" you can get that from more broad, generic sites like Engadget. It's the passion for specific things, in often incredibly detail, that gets me coming back.
@Conmused said:
I don't know that it's a simple case of fanboyism and the sort of tribalism about the thing you purchased though.
I really like my Mac a lot but I know plenty of people who have legitimate beefs with Apple and the Sillicon Valley press pretty much just ignores them and says all the best computers you can buy are Apple made.
Also I found it telling that the guys thought it perfectly normal to spend Macbook Air money on a machine to be a couch computer. I have a Macbook and it's my computer. It feels really disconnected from my world to speak of getting a computer that expensive just for the trivial on the couch uses. At 1000 dollars and up it's either okay for everything you do or it's not.
@Vermy81: Well, "Silicon Valley Press" do tend to be professional reviewers, who get samples of every product and compare them. I kinda trust that over Joe Schmoe who bought a laptop and is frustrated it doesn't get more coverage.
And telling? Of what? That they have more disposable income to spend? The air is perfect for couch computing. Your disconnect is that you just have your macbook, and that's your primary/only device. When they call it a couch computer, they're considering it in terms of secondary device. A peripheral and luxury product, much like a tablet. So at 1000 dollars and up, it's not all or nothing. It's either within your budget or it's not.
You may not be the audience for that segment, but that doesn't mean there's some kind of brand bias.
@Conmused said:
Sure, but I think it's ridiculous to be positioning Apple machines as the best in all categories of machines and not really discussing their drawbacks . For some people a iMac may be the best computer in the world but I think a custom built machine would be better for a lot of people. They never seem to mention the downsides of Apple stuff.
But if you look at message boards and Reddit and stuff about what tech enthusiasts are actually doing you see there's still a lot of what part should I get culture. That sort of hot rod PC builder culture has gotten completely swept under the rug whereas 10 years ago an article about the best computer you could build on a given budget was the centerpiece of tech sites in many cases.
I don't feel like it's a brand bias, so much as a point of view bias. There's not a lot of consideration of other points of view and there are plenty of legitimate cases that Macs are at best one of many contenders for what you should spend money on. But if you listened to the tech press and looked at the amount of coverage Apple gets you would think that they are the one and only great option.
Personally after testing both these new retina displays against regular ones in the same price range, I'm unimpressed.
Certainly the clarity is nice. The contrast assistance is nice.
But at 2-3 feet, I can't tell.
I do have glasses, and they do correct properly.
But I really can't tell. If you concentrate, you can sort of make out the lining. And for some films comparatively you sort of feel a nicer edge. But that's all. Is the price worth it yet? I don't believe so.
@Vermy81: Already pointed out that they discussed their drawbacks upthread. Not gonna rehash.
Message boards are not editorial. They're made of user generated content. Want that kind of content here? Start a thread! But don't compare a message board to some place like Tested, or The Verge. Also, 10 years ago in technology culture might as well be a lifetime. Tech news has broadened to tablets and phones, sensors and drones! The decade-old centerpiece has become specialty, and niche.
Point of view bias? I'm not sure I understand. As far as I can tell, your issue is that you're not getting content directly aimed at you? If you're saying you'd rather have more "best tech on X budget" focused content, then maybe directly request that? If nothing else, it's more constructive than bashing perfectly fine content, and/or claiming bias. Guys like Will and Norm and Topolsky can't meet requests they don't know about.
@Diffferent: What'd you test it against? Did you borrow a $2200 laptop, and haul it into an apple store?
Edit: There's also the fact that the screen has 2880 x 1880 resolution, so I can have my 27 inch screen at home (and then some), all on a 15 inch screen. Which is pretty awesome as a guy who does design work. It's not just about clarity, but having more on screen at once.
(It's still totally not worth the price)
@Conmused said:
What I mean by point of view bias is like if I go to a site like The Verge or listen to the podcast and look at the stuff you would think that there aren't any good Windows machines. But then I know that if I get all super nerdy and pick out every single component that there are advantages when compared with say an iMac.
Then I know that there are a lot of use cases where there are advantages to different stuff. But like the tech press would make you think the only computer that anyone should have are Macs. It's not anti-Apple thing, but other people make cool tech too that doesn't get any kind of attention.
@Vermy81 said:
Yes, if you pick out parts, you can make a great machine. But that's not a pre-assembled product, so it's not what they're reviewing. You're comparing apples and oranges again. The best combination of parts is for something like the reddit subforums. Tested, Engadget and The Verge will compare macbooks to other similar devices, like Lenovo Thinkpads, and Ultrabooks. They'll still compare hardware, but just the hardware that comes in that package.
And apple makes some badass, design-focused hardware. So yeah, it tends to get high marks.
I'm going home now, likely won't reply again until tomorrow.
@Conmused said:
I don't have a problem with Apple getting high marks. I like my Apple stuff, it's just reached a point where they've just become so much the dominant point in their coverage that you would think they're the only option if you want a nice machine.
I went over to a friends house with this amazing multimonitor setup that he built for around the same price as a fully loaded iMac but most of the Sillicon Valley stuff just talks about how great Apple is. Just a simple example, mechanical keyboards are fucking amazing. I never even heard of this from the tech press, everyone talks about how great Apple's trackpads are and deservedly so but it was a WoW blog that tipped me off to how nice it is to have a mechanical keyboard.
@Vermy81: http://www.tested.com/news/news/3358-our-favorite-tech-of-2011-mechanical-keyboards/
Nope. Nobody ever talks about mechanical keyboards and how great they are.
If you think that tech sites are only talking about apple products, you have some hardcore blinders on.
Also, I really thought we were past all this "Tested are just apple fanboys" stuff. It's a worn out argument, and honestly I have to wonder how anyone who actually visits Tested could propose that such bias exists. They covered Apple on a week where there was an Apple press event, color me shocked.
@RustySpoon said:
That being said... Will is on vacation for one of the biggest Microsoft news weeks out of this entire year. CONSPIRACY THEORY GO!
PS - I'm
mostlyjoking.Hey guys I'm copying some music to my iPod Classic right now, what's goin' on in here
@WesleyFenlon: This is the best. You are the best.
I don't feel like they praise or talk about Apple anymore than any other tech site. Apple is seen as the Ferrari of tech, and they do make some incredibly nice stuff. That's just the way it is.